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We are currently trialling a new nutrient from Grow research that inhibits mould growth in Fodder.

We have limited places for this trial. 
If you are interested contact me at scott@hydrocentre.com.au or phone me (07) 5527 4155

Thank You

Scott

Developing new growing techniques and nutrition.

Click here for a letter from Peter Doyle - I suggest this is a must read if you are in the Fodder field

Note: Archives below - send messages and responses to the new fodder forum

To go to our new Fodder forum click here

I get people with all sorts of health issues from cancer and diabetes, heart disease, all sorts of things like lupus, chronic asthma and so on. I can get a lot of them healthy again, and most problems are fixable. Wheatgrass is a great booster especially those who don't eat enough veggies and I need an easy way to do it. 

PS if you have anyone with any kind of sickness, give me a try, and I might be able to put you onto a few cures. I live to help people.

Scott

I wish to put a question or two to the people growing hydroponic fodder, firstly are you experiencing any new problems? 

• eg; different moulds, rotting of seed, fermentation of seed. 
• Has previously stored grain maintained a good germination rate, 
• how are you controlling pests such as weavils or do you buy in small quantities? 

I am throwing these questions out there to get people talking again, how many people have given up and shut down their sheds? 

I am certain that with good communication between interested people we can help each other solve our problems with growing hydro fodder. For instance, at one talk I was giving regarding the benefits of hydroponic fodder, a fellow from Europe suggested freezing the seed for up to two hours before sowing, he believes that this delays the mould growth by enough days to no longer be a problem, has anybody tried this? We have not yet, but will be giving it a go, after all Queensland has its own peculiarities regarding climatic conditions such as high humidity etc and as such we seem to have more hassles than those who grow down south! But I do not believe they are insurmountable. So please, anyone that has an experience to share lets have it. Post it direct to this site so we can all read it. Cheers, Lesley lesleyt1@bigpond.com 

PS. Some people who have contacted me privately, address the question to Lesley and Scott! Please let me say that I have no affiliation with hydrocentre other than an interest in Hydroponic Fodder and am a grower myself (and my husband Ian!) I really support the forum that Scott has provided for us and have been very happy with any answers Scott has been able to find for me.

Aww shucks Lesley (blush).... Thanks for that. I don't charge for any advice. Actually, I don't even remember making any money from fodder growers so I guess its free too! I mostly like to help people find out the answers for themselves, so get in there and try it. 

Scott 

29 Jan 2004

Hi Scott, Lesley here again. Andrew Olley's reply was quite right, the asp.clav mould spores are present on the grain. 
In the earlier years when malting barley was spread on large floors before being processed there was a condition called 'brewers chest' or something similar. This came about because the spores became airborne and the workers breathed it in. 

We have found that it is very important to get the pH of the water right, and keep the growing temperature down, after all, barley is a winter crop. I am pleased that we have this forum to exchange ideas, thank you Scott. 

Another tip:- the quality of the seed is of the utmost importance, I would not by a huge quantity of seed until I had tried a sample, seed quality varies greatly and so does germination percentage, grain is not cheap and storage systems must be considered. If anybody has any experiences with different types of grain, I would be very interested in hearing from them, my e-mail address is lesleyt1@bigpond.com  

Regards, Lesley

Noticed you had a couple of people reporting cattle deaths and Aspergillus in November.

I phoned Dr. Ross McKenzie from DPI to see if he had heard anything about a recent outbreak, but he hadn't heard of any reports.

He requested Queensland farmers who find an outbreak to send him an email at ross.mckenzie@dpi.qld.gov.au so he can track the problem.

Thanks

Dr. LF

Hi. I am involved in hydroponic fodder production in WA and am having difficulty in finding people who know anything about A.clavatus as it affects fodder sheds. The trouble is that all Ag Departments in Australia except for Qld seem to be anti hydro fodder production and will not spend any money to research A.clavatus. We have had a mini breakthrough in WA - a well respected nutritionist and an Ag Dept./university research officer are about to do some serious feed trials here on cattle and sheep, and the senior officer in the Ag dept is keen to carry out real life testing of A.clavatus at the same time. I have just manufactured a mobile fodder shed - based upon Peter Ryan's fodder factory principles - and it will be used for the trials from February. Further to that, I am conducting my own trials on tray types, different nutrient types, different grain types and have come across a water conditioner (German technology) that has controlled an array of algae and moulds in differing situations. I have installed one in my mobile shed and expect it to assist me with general hygiene on the trays, walls and ceiling. If it can assist in the control of A.clavatus then I have a bonus. My second hand experience over here with A.clavatus is that three different people have lost cattle with feeding barley - all in high humidity situations where the temperature climbs. One fodder factory that has been operating for four years without problems has always kept the temperature below 24 but there have still been A.clavatus present - but seemingly dormant at low temperatures. If I have any success with any of this in the next three months I will be making the findings quite public - not because the findings will be conclusive, but because it would be some comfort to people like you and me who are currently starved of any information. Cheers BG

Hi Scott, I am not in a panic (well I tell myself this!) but we have found aspergillus clavatus in our sprouting barley grain. We have dumped all infected product and want to know what we can spray to ensure that there are no spores left in the coolroom or on shelving and trays. Also our current lighting is very dull, what type of wattage do we need to replicate daylight? Our coolroom may have been a bit warm, hence the mould, I am thinking 18-20 deg. Celsius, what do you think. Thanks in anticipation, Lesley Thomson Qld.

1. Cleaning with Pool Chlorine is most commonly used and most cost effective. Check with Dept of Ag for any better tips. Its pretty difficult to remove I have been led to believe. 

2. Lighting is usually good fluros like ACTIVA 98% Colour rendition (4ft tube $19.50), kept very close to the plants, or Metal Halides 400Watters every 1mx1m, 1000Watters every 2mx2m. Electricity and water generally mix badly, so think about protection for the lamps. Some sort of shield or waterproof fitting would be advisable. Or skylights - but then heat is an issue.

Scott

Dear Scott 

We have a small farm with a fodder shed in southern Victoria. We have had severe mould problems with about 20 out of 100 die on us and a lot more seriously ill. We had the fodder tester for toxicity but at the time it free from A. Clavatus. A couple of weeks later it developed and we have found ourselves in trouble. We understand that there is nothing we can do for our cattle but wait it out and hope for the best. It sure was a huge morale boost to finally find your site and discover that we are not alone with this problem. We would really like to get in touch with others that have been through this or have found solutions to this problem but we don't know where to start. Can you put us in touch with those who have experienced this situation. Thank you so much. Lainie

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I'll pop this up onto the site and ask them to contact you, And I would ask if a copy (cc:) could be sent to me at scott@hydrocentre.com.au to ensure that information is updated on the website for everyone. Hopefully they will all come out of the woodwork and we'll find out how widespread it all is. Scott

Dear Scott Thanks for being so prompt in your reply, we really appreciate your assistance. We are very nervous about taking it up again given the fatalities we have had to date, even if there is a way around the toxic mould problem. We would be interested in talking with anyone who grows Hydroponic fodder anywhere in Australia as we are so new to the process. Thanks again Lainie

Dear Scott I was wondering if you had heard yet from anybody that may be in or have been in the same predicament as us. We have had no more fatalities over the weekend, we seem to be over the worst of it now. The problem is we have invested in this wonderful shed and we are wondering how to modify it to incorporate a facility that allows to efficiently wash our grain, and/or what are some other options for our shed. Perhaps we should branch out and try germinating other grains? Perhaps we should try growing food instead of feed? If you can help us to get in touch with others who have invested in the simple shed, fodder factory or the like it would be a great benefit to us. These companies, for whatever reasons, are not prepared to give out the names of their other clients so it is up to us to do our own investigations.

I wondering about George. I have been reading his letters to you, he seems like he is running a successful system. He also seems to be very open and willing to share his ideas and experiences. Is it possible for us to contact him directly? One other question, will you be publishing the original letter that I wrote you?

Thank you very much for your support. Lainie.

I'll send George an email. I have had a large company with vast resources unable to beat mould, and others who have no troubles. Seems difficult to pick a solution. I will certainly let anyone know the solution to the problem.

Hi Scott Thank you for your information much appreciated, I have sent this to Lainie, one thing I forgot to mention was that the quicker you can get the feed out of the shed the better, Regards G

Hi, I got a message from Scott to E-mail You, Hope I can help. We ran our shed for about 9 months flat out, and we sure had some problems with mould, I think the mould comes mainly from the grain itself, the trouble is that barley is by far the most suitable grain for the shed, and it is the grain most likely to have mould. The first lot of grain we used had been stored on farm for about 7 months and we didn't have many problems with it, the second lot of grain came straight off the header, and boy did we have problems then, that's why I would look at the grain first, You can try to first clean the grain up by grading, washing, and soaking it in "Pythoff" (Scott can supply this) . If I start the shed again I would put the grain in a cement mixer an run water through it until the water came clear, with this method you could float off any rubbish and husk off, then soak the grain in Pythoff for 2 hours, then drain it off , there is no problem spreading the wet grain in the trays. The next thing you have to look at is the cleanliness of the shed and most of all the trays. We were very particular about this. After we have emptied the trays they were soaked in a tub holding 300 lt. of water and in that I would put 1 lt. of pool chlorine, and soak for at least 15 min, then we would scrub them clean, sounds a bit of work but in the long run worth it, we would then wash the racks down and then spray them with a strong chlorine solution. When mixing up the nutrient solution we would put 1 lt. chlorine to 22000 lt.solution. ( the tub I mentioned can be purchased from Rapidplas Tanks they call it a creep box). I hope these rambling's will help you, the ones that sell us the sheds don't know all the answers, none of us do, we are all on a steep learning curve, it is very easy to make mistakes, some very costly, with Scott,s web page we can all share our experiences and together we might solve some of the problems. G.

Scott

Scott

Hi Scott, my husband and I have set up a growing system at home, not a turnkey system, but a large climate controlled coolroom capable of growing between 4 and 6 tonne per day of barley sprouts. We want to sell the fodder to farmers who need or want to try this food but have neither the capital or the time to purchase a factory for themselves. We have been setting up our growing room for a long time now as research and money have both been needed, thank you and the others on this page for your input as we have gleaned a lot of valuable information. If anyone wants to contact us personally they can e-mail us on lesleyt1@bigpond.com

Thanks again, Lesley

Good Luck I'll publish this for the farmer to see. 

Scott

Scott, I have the same question as most, re mould , have read all question and answers and would like to know how much peroxide can be added to a 25,000litre tank , also how much would you mix to wash the seed in, everyone tells you what you use but not how much. Thanks Glenda

Well, the simple answer is to get a test kit and add until the desired ppm is reached. How much is desired? A residual of a small level is good. Growth Technology make a test strip and I am getting them in stock soon. 50% Peroxide can be added at around 20ml/100litres every 2-3 days, or 10ml/100litres daily

I have a saying that no-one gets a simple answer from me. The long answer is that Peroxide products release oxygen and water as a chemical reaction when they come in contact with the nasties in the liquid to be sterilized. In the process the H2O2 becomes H2O and O2, leaving no peroxide. If you have 1000 units of nasties, you will use 1000 units of peroxide to kill them. If you add 1000 units of peroxide and there is only 500 units of nasties then there will residual peroxide, and if there are 2000 units, then you have no peroxide and a residual of nasties. Using an approximate level means everyone has the same level of nasties, and that is just silly. You have to dose enough to get the problem fixed, and not waste the product by using so much that you end up bleaching the roots

So if you have test strips and there is a residual, then you have protection against nasties floating in you tank and you add small amounts to keep it there. (under 10ppm would be fine for me) Peroxide won't last for long in a moving tank of water, so don't panic if it disappears, you are looking that after adding a small amount it gives a residual reading on the test strip. If you use a lot to get a test strip reading, then there are still lots of nasties so dose regularly. The speed of peroxide reaction is what gives you an idea of what levels are in the tank.

To make the peroxide last longer out 6% peroxide has a silver ion added which elongates the effectiveness in the solution and protects the plants for longer. This product is for home use and is called Hydroshield.

(Nasties: my highly technical term meaning bad things such as single celled organisms like fungus, mould, bacteria, and nots so bad things like algae)

Scott

I have a few questions .Has anyone tried making hay from the fodder produced? If so what if any special procedures are required. The other is to do with trays. Way back you said the cost for trays would be $5. But from where did you source them? I intend to use a insulated shipping container (have seen it produce successfully )which will produce about 200kg/day does anyone have a successful more cost effective housing solution? Keep up the good work very interesting.

Hay from Fodder? You wouldn't harvest the fodder roots and all, so that would be different. If you are doing it for storage thats good. Fresh fodder should be more nutritious though. The Shipping container should be good, keep an eye on that temperature, stale air pockets etc. I think a lot of constructions can work. Ventilation is a key to avoid mould. Air conditioners are a good idea.

Scott

Dear Scott, 
I have found your site very useful in establishing my own small Green Fodder Shed and have been able to produce green fodder using very basic tools. My wifes shade house, cat litter trays (from $2 shop), quality malting barley, and hand spraying. While I'm not producing large volumes, it has helped in times of fodder shortage. A good site that I also found is http://www.melandapark.com/fodder.html 

Well worth a read for those that want to do it in a small way with good results and at a reasonable price. Peter

Thanks for the information. Shows how simple you can make it work. That link seems to be quite useful. Hope everyone has a look. 

Scott

scott i think you should learn a bit more about fodder before giving people advice about it

I have left the name off this email as I always do, but it was from an fodder system manufacturer/advisor.

At first I was a bit hurt in that I do like helping people, but I won't ever hide from criticism.

I thought about it, and guess that it might be a good idea to ask if anyone thinks I should lay off giving my free advice please email me at scott@hydrocentre.com.au - and I will quit if I think it is necessary.

All farmers should do their due diligence and check out that something told to them actually works before justifying expenditure. I always believed there are easy ways to grow fodder, and to get trouble free fodder this may not be entirely possible without setting up a more expensive system. As all crops can fail so can fodder. 

Most of the turnkey operations eliminate most of the hard part of growing, but leave growers without a true understanding of why the system works. I guess its a consumer decision to either choose a system that gives you instant results and a 24 hour phone assistance, or work it out for yourself. I speak here of my experience with vegetable farms as well as fodder.

My experience is almost entirely in the Hydroponic Vegetable and Herb industry and have helped a lot of people setup in fodder, from my hydroponic experience (read as not specifically fodder experience) of 13 years. I haven't had any complaints until today about my fodder advice, so I will continue to be honest about the whole thing, and hope I never stop helping.

I guess I am a little down about making any effort to help today. 

Scott

For more information on the feed shed pictured in photos way down below (scott) , contact the manufactuer - Robert Charles of the Charles Feed Shed www.hwy.com.au/~rcharles  Email rcharles@hwy.com.au  Phone/Fax 6657 3255

Regards Karen Charles-Hart

Thanks for the link. Hope everyone lets me know if these links are beneficial to them.

Scott

hi scott, thanks for answering everyones questions. my name is terry colless i am the co inventor of the automatic paddock. www.automaticpaddock.com.au the worlds first fully automated fodder production facility. in our facility trays are automatically seeded, harvested,washed and sterilised. our facility harvests over 1400 kg of fodder per day with no labour .the most commonly asked questions from people are about mould and how to controll it and what weight gains can i expect from this feed. both of these and many other questions i will be happy to answer for everyone . you can e mail me at tcolless@hn.ozemail.com.au.

Always happy to help those who want to help

Scott

Thank you for your email regarding our service and its entry on your webpage. The only correction would be that our email address has had a minor change as follows: feed.test@dpi.vic.gov.au

If you require further information about our service please contact us.

FEEDTEST Ph: 1300 655 474 Fax: 03 5571 1523

Noticed you had someone asking about feeding barley fodder to horses on your 'fodder page' website.

Our website contains a page on this topic that may contain some useful information

http://www.optigrow.com/eqframe.html

Regards

Lesleigh Research Officer 
Opti Grow Pty Ltd

Hello Scott: I have tracked down the source of the fodder-mould-cattle-death story, both originating from the same source: Now we know.

http://www.qld.gov.au

Source: Queensland Gov't - Dept. of Primary Industries

26 March 2003

Caution advised with mouldy hydroponic fodder The Department of Primary Industries is urging cattle farmers who are using sprouted grains to feed their cattle to be extra vigilant in ensuring the grain is not contaminated by a harmful species of mould.

According to DPI Animal and Plant Health Service (APHS) principal pathologist Ross McKenzie, four separate incidents of cattle poisoning have occurred in the past six months due to cattle being fed sprouted grains that were infested with a heavy growth of a particular kind of fungus.

The mould, identified as Aspergillus clavatus, is identical to that found in similar poisoning cases in South Africa, Israel, France, England and China and is found in soil and cereal grains worldwide.

"While the fungus is well-known throughout the world, the actual occurrence of poisoning by it has always been considered quite rare," Dr McKenzie said.

Producers should keep a watchful eye out for the fungus, which can be identified in sprouted grain due to its blue-green colouring and mouldy appearance. Confirming its identity requires microscopic examination by an expert.

"It is thought that the heavy growths of the fungus which poisoned the cattle may have resulted from elevated temperatures in the production facilities, especially during the summer months. In some of the poisoning cases, owners reported that breakdowns in the temperature control systems for sprout production had occurred before the cattle became ill.

"Even a few days exposure to temperatures around or above 24 degrees Celsius is enough to cause a flush of fungal growth on the sprouting grain," he said.

Poisoning damages the spinal cord and brain tissue, and signs of the poisoning, which may take up to two weeks to appear, include cattle walking stiffly with poorly coordinated hind limbs.

Less frequent signs include drooling saliva, loss of appetite, difficulty with breathing after exercise and convulsions.

According to Dr McKenzie, mildly affected cattle probably have a reasonable chance of recovery from the illness. Of the twenty-five cattle known to have been affected by the fungus, the eight most severly affected died or were killed humanely.

Producers who believe they may have identified the fungus in any type of sprouted grain and are seeking confirmation should contact the DPI's Veterinary or Plant Pathology Laboratories through the DPI Call Centre on 13 25 23.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further information: Dr Ross McKenzie. Ph: +61 7 3362 9432 Senior Media Officer: Sarah Martin. Ph: +61 7 3239 3014 Department of Primary Industries Media Unit GPO Box 46 Brisbane Qld 4001. Fax +61 7 3239 0860 DPI Call Centre 8am-6pm weekdays on local call 13 25 23

AND:

QLD Country Hour Summary Tuesday 1/4/2003

QLD Country Hour Home . Story Archive . QLD Country Hour Summary

Mouldy fodder warning - Leonie Lyons Graziers have been warned to beware of mouldy hydroponic fodder! The Department of Primary Industries says four cases of cattle poisoning have occured around Queensland recently - stock were fed hydroponically grown grains, infested with a fungus known as Aspergillus Clavatus. DPI Principal Pathologist Ros McKenzie says while hydroponically grown fodder seems to be the "in thing" and normally the sprouted grass is nutritious and cost effective, users must take care. There is no treatment for stock affected by the mould, which appears to caused by overheating the sprouting grain. Therefore, Ross McKenzie says producers should be on the look out for the blue-green mould on feed. Ross McKenzie: DPI Principal Pathologist

source for above: http://www.abc.net.au/rural/qld/stories/s821612.htm

Scott I live in a hot climate but have an old tunnel on my property. It is a cool place seldom above 20 c. and has a very dry climate inside. Would this be suitable to turn into a fodder shed? And if so how much and what type of light would be required? I have looked at both the Fodder Factory and the Automatic Paddock (fully automatic self seeding and harvesting unit) and I can't help but wonder if I can do it myself. Thanks for your time regards Al

Lots of growers have done it themselves. I still say you should try and get some seed and some trays and water them to learn more before getting into it. Most of the questions on the site www.hydrocentre.com.au are from people who don't have the cash to setup expensive turnkey operations.

Saying that, it sounds like light levels don't appear to be high to get good growth, and fodder grown in shade seems to grow well enough. Its an issue of mould. different depths of seed, humidity, cleanliness, temperature all seem to play a part. I recommend some experimentation in your shed and see if mould is a factor. My guess is you might need to look at temperature if it is much below 18 degrees. Sprouting might become a problem - but give it a try. Every shed is different.

Scott

Regards George

I have a fodder factory in operation which works very well. But I recently got some green mould on the seed from the 5th - 6th day onward. After sending it to the lab to get it tested it was identified as aspergillus clavatas-a very nasty mould toxic to animals and humans. After doing some research into this mould I found out that it was first discovered in the 1950 in the process of making beer. From 1950 to the present it has killed hundreds of cattle all over the world notable 200 dairy cows in Bulgaria in one hit and they were feeding them sprouted malting barley ex-the brewery. Some tests were carried out as brewery workers were getting very sick and they found it was this mould which spores in the air as well, and in the old speak is called brewers disease! This paper I have on the subject notes of test carried out on malting barley and found that 32 percent of sprouted malting barley will contain aspergillus. This I found quite astonishing as all along I thought the mould problem was due to hygiene or humidity. But it is not it is a scientific fact that it grows on the outside of the seed itself. I am writing this as all the deaths of cattle in Australia from sprouted barley had evidence of this mould and it is essential that people know not to feed out the fodder if any sign of this blue/green furry type mould on the seed. Tests found that in cattle, it affects the hindquarter first as if the animal is lame in both legs. Hope this info is useful to others as it has affected our operation and seems to be solved with a mix of hydrogen peroxide and chlorine in the nutrient tank, and also rinsing the grain.

Thank You for this information. Since I have no knowledge of any deaths of cattle and never seen a green mould, I am unsure what to say. The moulds I have seen are not green, although algae is green, and different to the green mould described by this email. No mould is definitely the best growing situation. I will let you decide about the above information, and if you have heard more about 

We know that Hydrogen peroxide is a good sterilizing agent, which is neutralized by Chlorine (so don't use them at the same time), and Chlorine should kill moulds as well. I have been recommended R and D Aquaponics anti-mould product for fodder, and will get some in stock soon. 

Please forward this sort of information for the benefit of farmers. One post below mentions deaths, but I have no knowledge about that report either. If you have any further information please advise me at scott@hydrocentre.com.au and until then, don't panic. I reiterate that I have no knowledge of deaths, and perhaps I have not been in touch with these growers yet.

Scott

I'm having a hard time finding complete info on feed analysis for greenfeeds sprouted from different grains and beans. I've checked many sights on the web with no luck.

I do too! 

http://www.rdaquaponics.com.au/12403.html  is not a bad site from a Sydney company http://www.hydroponics.com.au/back_issues/issue35.html  a story on the fodder factory from Practical Hydroponics http://www.sproutnet.com/nutrition_research.htm  may have some value in some of the articles on Barley etc. http://hwy.com.au/~rcharles  may have some useful information http://www.fodderfactory.com.au  has some info, but you'll need to ask for specifics.

I found these links by searching www.google.com.au with hydroponic fodder nutritional analysis - here is the link. I only searched the first 3 pages. http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=hydroponic+fodder+nutritional+analysis&btnG=Google+Search&meta=  You can try more types of searches yourself.

PLEASE let me know of any good information on this so I can update my site

Thanks

Scott

Automatic fodder machines, are they available???
16 Jun 2003

Hi Scott,

Have just found this forum and would like to ask you a few questions, no doubt I will have others but for now:

I am interested in the availability of auto seeding and harvesting fodder machines as it seems the labour cost / time needed to run the manual models, to some extent at least, undermines the economics of installing them in the first place.

I have heard on the grapevine there is one about to be released in WA but I can't seem to find out much about it i.e. costs, size etc, there may be others available but it would seem automation is the stumbling block to market acceptance of fodders feeding and its undeniable benefits particularly in summer and during periods of drought.

Also have you any details on the various airborne diseases that affect fodder, I heard recently a report on the ABC where someone lost their entire heard (cattle) that was being fed barley fodder but unfortunately I was driving at the time and missed its name but it sounded very serious, have you any ideas as to what the preconditions are to these diseases occurring or where I could find out, cleanliness I understand plays a large part.

This is a great page buy the way.

From W.A.

Good Questions

1/ Auto seeding - good idea. I'd never use it, because to get the seeds level on a tray, and automated would be cost inefficient by the time you have mastered the mechanics. Auto seeding works for other propagation systems, however I am skeptical of any benefit from automation. (Automation is my current problem. Too many motors, not enough brains) For instance, some guy marketing to richer Asian markets has build a motor driven system that hauls the fodder up to the sun, and down again. The cost is astronomical, and if the land weren’t so valuable there, they'd never sell one. Now poor farmers come along desperate to get some feed to save the farm, put the 200th mortgage on their house just to pay for the damn thing! What a waste when they could have produced 4 times the amount with a simpler system using a bit more space.

Gadgets are good but not always necessary. My 6-month-old laptop here has a DVD player in it. Like when would I use it???? Business is business. Why not work out costs on a simple system, vs. a complicated system. I could be wrong, but also if there's a job in it for someone, and it costs less, give it a go! If I am wrong then I think that’s good too. At least we thought about it first.

2/ The cost savings on the whole come from NOT having a complicated automated setup. Automating some things would work better than automating the growing - such as automatically washing the seed before start, automating the tray washing would be a great help, nutrient mixing (using one of our nutrient dosers) and temperature control with fans and air conditioners. Having the trays in racks that are on wheels could help. Wheel them out for harvest etc. Just disconnect the irrigation first...

3/ I have never heard of anyone losing animals to fodder that animal would be expected to eat - e.g. we already know that Alpacas get dizzy on some rye grasses so we don't do those grasses.... Mould is a problem with some animal’s digestion, but animals generally don't touch anything mouldy if they don't like it. I hear that cattle can eat some mouldy stuff because of their four stomachs even. It is possible that an animal could get sick on any pasture, grown in a tray or in a field. It is probably an external thing, such as problem in the water supply or some such thing. Its fairly unlikely considering growing lettuce and tomatoes etc is a very similar process hydroponically and we humans never get sick except for the allergies/pesticide residue/contaminations which make me grow my own at home anyway.  

Thanks for the question. I will remain a K.I.S.S. advocate, but let me know if you can make that fodder system dance!

Scott

climate control
 19 Jun 2003

Scott reading other questions it seems that temperature is all-important - especially in controlling mould. I've seen models such as the fodder factory with gas heaters and evaporative air conditioners. Would a simple heating/cooling unit that you can set the temperature on say 23 degrees and keep the room constant at that temperature work, such as is available for houses. I am looking at purchasing a shed but have a few more different models to check out first. I'm more interested in fattening lambs rather than cattle. Can you please put me in touch with anyone who might be feeding lambs hydroponic barley as I’m starved for information? 

Hello

Yes we are all starved for information unfortunately. 

1/ Mould is related to humidity. Once the mould is in, the temperature relates to its growth, and unfortunately the fodder likes the same temperatures.

2/ Air conditioners seem to be the best way to dry the air, reducing humidity, and to keep a suitable growth temperature.

3/ Hydroponic Barley is the same or better than normal fresh barley grass. Ask your vet for an opinion on the barley and other grasses effect on fattening lambs.

Let me know what you decide and/or find in information. We are all learning here.

Scott

Scott, Just a quick thank you for operating this page. I have been trying to make sense of the whole fodder question and keep finding too many brick walls built by people who have vested interests. Thanks to all of those who contribute with such great input. One day I will be in a position to help someone else out as you have me. All the best Peter

As I sit and answer all the same question over and over for all those people who ask the same questions over and over, I find someone who actually reads the pages. Thanks back at you - nice to be appreciated.

Scott :P

Dear Scott,

Thank you for your previous emails. I appreciate the information given to me.

I have recently heard about the Fodder Factory and was wondering what, if any, experience you had with it, and what information you might have about it.

I am extremely interested in finding alternatives for farmers to help them through the drought.

Thank you again for your time.

Fodder Factory is a fairly good system. I believe he has built many units, and no complaints except if the air-conditioning fails it becomes a mould factory.

Should be a good investment, fairly liberal in the cost of assembly - but you should get good support from experienced grower which is worth extra money.

Farmers could build it themselves cheaply, but experience, a pre-built system, and away you go is very good also.

I would caution farmers that you usually spend more time operating one than advertised, especially when inexperienced and some failure might occur in mould if everything is not clean.

Scott

Dear Scott 

Can you feed barley fodder to horses? If so how much can they have? Is it safe? Any info on this matter would be appreciated. 

I have farmers doing it, but check with a vet for safety. I have had a few animals like Alpacas that can't take certain fodder, and we work thru their vet to discover how to ensure a good quality feed.

My quick look on the net at www.google.com.au gave me these sites mentioning a benefit of Barley especially as a grain, and as a grass.

http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/husbandry/wholefoods-nutr.html

http://horses.about.com/care/nutrition/nutrition011903

http://www.care-for-my-horse.com/html/nutrition.html

http://petshub.com/horses/nutrition/horse_nutrition.php

5000 pages more at http://www.google.com.au/search?q=horses+nutrition+barley&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Hope that is all helpful and let me know how you go...

Scott

I grew some hydroponic barley fodder last October with amazing results but the cattle wouldn't look at it. Took a bit of a nibble and headed back to the barley straw! In a previous response to a question you said barley can smell pretty bad and you suggested rinsing it. Was this for the seed going in to the trays at the start or for the fodder coming out at the end of the process?

Good Question. Farmers tell me that the nutrient mineral salts on the roots are not tempting, but once the minerals are rinsed off the response is normal. So instead of watering fodder last 12-24 hours use plain water or rinse with fresh water once harvested. How much will be easy to work out. If they don't eat it, rinse it again.

Scott

Dear Scott,

I am currently undertaking a Work for the Dole project in which we are researching drought relief ideas for farmers and producing an information CD for them. Part of our aim is to offer new strategies and ideas to help overcome effects of the drought and to prepare for future droughts.

I was very inspired by your web site and would like your opinion on the relevance of hydroponics for farmers on both large and small properties. I am also seeking information as to ideal set up situations, costs and effectiveness in producing different crops relevant for cattle.

I am looking forward to hearing from you. Thank You for your time . Yours Sincerely

Hello, 

Water needs to be pure, not tainted with salinity. 

Overcome that, and you need to have a business plan. There are lots of crops you can grow, but need a market to sell the produce. Best crop at the moment is hydroponic fodder.

Fodder is useful, especially for breeding stock, valuable animals such as alpaca, racehorses. Takes about 5-7 days to produce fodder. All the information at that site is relevant. I will put up this question and let the farmers answer it from feedback. The best way to find out is get some barley seed (big sack is under $20) ,put in tray, water with water until moist, when dry do it again. 

Scott

Hi again Scott 

Just as I think the mould is under control, up it crops again, maybe its the wet weather we have had lately.

At 63mm , great, I have cut the watering time back to a minute every 4 hours, with only one water between 8pm and 8am , we are pulling the fodder out as soon as we see mould. sometimes I think these sheds should be called "Fungus Factorys" 

Any money in fungus?? But it has kept my Cattle going. 

Regards George.

Georges sheds are in photos below - Scott

Scott, we have started a small fodder shed, and had been told or read a humidity level of around 70% is optimum. Is this correct as the commercial sheds are using air-conditioning to control temperature? OR do they re-humidify after cooling?

We also have encountered mould! Do you know if a Slow Sand Filter will treat the water sufficiently or will additional treatment be required. Currently running at a pH of 6.4 and EC 1.4, would like to know what other people's values are like.

Would like more info on you nutrient mix. regards Kevin

Scott Responds

Kevin, you sound like you have it all up and running. The main reason for the Air conditioners is to keep it under 25 degrees and dry air to get rid of the mould. Dry is good. 70% is probably too high.

Mould comes off the seed, and can come from the water. Water can be sterilized with UV, Ozone, Hydrogen Peroxide, and most popular is Pythoff (Monochloramine)

Standing tanks can be sterilized with Chlorine/Bleach. The chlorine/bleach must be eliminated before contact with plants by aeration or Hydrogen peroxide.

pH of 6-7 is safe in all Hydroponics.

EC 1.4 (This is a CF14 or 700-980ppm depending on your meter) I would think about 0.8 to 1.6 is fine. Look at your growth compared to humidity and temperature. High EC slows growth, but increases weight. You may find high EC linked to heavy growth and slow growth which could be linked to mould in dense growth.

The EC is linked to the transpiration rate (Its sweating of moisture to allow further uptake of liquid) which is reliant on the environment. Raise the temperature for example; there is a higher transpiration (think sweating) and you have to the lower the EC to get a similar result. Increase the airflow over the fodder and the transpiration goes up. See our pages on CF control here particularly advanced control on pages 3 and 4.

Because of the environment, every green fodder grower will get slightly different results even if using the same EC/CF.

Nutrient mixes are pre-packed General Purpose Commercial Nutrients. I have had much concern over the trace elements for fodder if using low EC, but high EC works fine. A fodder mix is on my list, but I am not keeping up with the demand for my services at the moment so fodder nutrients is on the back burner at the moment. Want to do it soon. Want a Holiday badly also. Oh well. Can't have everything.

Prices: Our current mix is a 5kg $50 pack making around 50,000 litres. (use nutrient from day 3 onward)
Our 20kg pack $120 is 200,000 litres. Our sample pack is a 1kg $20

Delivery is negotiable.

Scott

Hi Scott, 

I would like to comment on mould in fodder sheds. 

We have been using Pythoff , and it is keeping the mould under control, we soak the grain for at least an hour, let it drain for about 2 hours, then put it in the trays. We also treat supply tank, and flush racks when empty. Still get a bit of mould at 7-8 days, but this doesn't effect growth. regards George

Thanks for the update George! Could you pull the crop before the 7th day so the mould hasn't set in (Cattle not much affected - all those stomachs - but knocks other animals about) Is it big enough?

Sounds like a solution but isn't it a lot of work?

Scott :)

dear Scott, I'm looking for a formula of nutrients, that could help me to start. thanks in advance. Martin

Yes, I am too.
I have tried to understand a few different ideas for formulas
but most of the nutrition is just wrong I think.
Primarily there is talk of Cobalt being necessary for some animals,
but no-one uses cobalt.... or understands how to use it.
Secondarily is the higher ratio of trace elements required if using a low nutrient strength,
and not everyone uses low strength.
Some use high strength which requires a different approach.

I can create you a formula for general purpose vegetables, which I sell for $50 Australian to farmers only.
I will be working on a fodder formula with emphasis on animal nutrition not plant nutrition.
I cannot give you an effective date as to when that will happen.
We sell nutrients here, but you are too far away.

You can always try local suppliers of agricultural minerals, as they may have a formula.
The only problem is this is new enough that some people will try and rip you off with a general purpose formula or worse, a high ammonia soil liquid fertilizer.
If you do locate one, I am happy to give you an opinion.

Good luck and keep in touch

Scott

We are very interested in growing green feed Hydroponically which would be suitable to feed out to cattle, i.e. barley/oats/wheat etc. We need to be able to germinate the seed and grow to about 12" high in a period of about 7 days. We need trays that would be easily handled . As we are hobby farmers and at the moment only have 20 head of cattle, we do not require the expense and outlay required by the Fodder Factory. We would like some help and suggestions for building this ourselves. Any literature you may have which would help us get started would be appreciated.

Trays - still a problem.
Everyone has different needs.
The main thing is lots of slope when the roots become thick and less when they are still sprouting.
A textured ridge to stop the seeds from sliding is good.
Using a small drill for holes or saw for cutting a slot, the trays should drain at one end into a plastic gutter.
Many people just use the lids from storage crates.
Plastic manufacturers can supply these fairly easily, and you would need to drill some drainage holes in them.
We use a tray that is about 65x45cm, and has some ridges across them to keep the seed from migrating down.
Anticipating the question - they cost us about $3 each, so you would get them for about $5 or less if there were numbers.
We use black because it requires less cleaning.

Seeing the pictures on the fodder page in questions there is a very neat greenhouse, with a light shield (silver reflective) over the top of the trays, and the light comes in thorough the sides mostly. The grower has used a large air conditioners to keep it all cool/which is an optional thing.

All the rest of our information is being posted to the fodder site continually.

The real problem is companies that have information want you to pay for it.
We don't - in fact we hope to get a video on how to during this year made up, and a simple nutrient formula
Our current mix is a 5kg $50 pack making around 50,000 litres. (use nutrient from day 3 onward)
Our 20kg pack $120 is 200,000 litres
Our sample pack is a 1kg $20

As always check the site regularly, ask questions, but try and do some experimenting for yourself with some shade cloth, plastic tray and some hydroponic nutrient
hand watering works enough for testing.

Scott Andrew

> We are only just starting into fodder production of barley (3 tonnes per day) and have encountered mould problems. Some of the equipment has pumped with questionable efficiency. We are starting over with pretreating seed. What dosage of calcium hyperchloride would you recommend to address the problem, both through tray washer and overhead sprinklers? Is this the most effective/efficient product to use, as we are feeding 7-8 day old shoots to dairy and beef cattle?

Not happy with calcium hyper chloride - might as well use pool chlorine. Fodder will not be happy.

Has anyone else used calcium hyper chloride?

Ensure there is good drainage in the tray - no water left, all draining.

wash seed before putting in trays Never let your hands touch the seed - use plastic gloves. Do not disturb seed once rootlet emerges.

discard water from first 2 days.

Use nutrient from then on.

Best product seems to be Pythoff - Monochloramine. Treat all water sprayed onto the fodder. Treat water storage tanks with a shock dose as well. Ensure good ventilation (this would show as mould in some places, not in others. Keep the heat down to as close to 22 degrees as possible.... Please don't laugh - I'm serious..... Oh well do what you can. the higher the temperature, the worse the mould. Use pool chlorine to wash the trays between crops.

Keep an eye on the fodder pages and questions, for updates on fodder production.

Good luck.

Scott

Thanks to his generosity, you can all see how a working unit is set up. 
Click on the picture for full size pictures.

no 1 Slab 15m.X 6m. no 2, Frame, made on property, goes up. no 3, Shed ends up. no 4, All frame work up, round holes for exhaust fans, square holes for air conditioner. 

no 5, Canopy goes on. no 6, Shows retractable reflective curtin ceiling. no 7, Shows air conditioner in place. no 8, Racks made ready to go in shed. 

no 9, nutrient mixing set up, mixed in a 200 l. tank and then transferred to main tank 22000 l. no 10, Racks in shed and plumbing completed. no 11, barley starts to grow. no 12, 7 days growth. 

The shed took about 6 weeks to build. building the frame and racks took up most of the time. 

mould is no 1 problem, humid days don't help, but up to now we haven't had a lot of them. 

The shed has been operating for nearly 5 months, 25 tonnes of barley seed kept it going for over 4 months with a weekly output of about 7 tonnes green matter and root mass, stock eat the lot. 

The fodder companies of some of these sheds put the labour down at 2 hours a day, which is a load of bull*** . You have to spend a lot more time than that, to get good results, but it pays off in the long run. 

Hope this gives you a bit more information. 

Regards George.

I live outside Kingaroy in Queensland and have recently installed a fodder factory. I have encountered problems with mould. The addition of sulphur to the nutrient tank has seemed to deal with black mould but lately we have gotten a severe problem with a white mould. This is worse in humid weather associated with the rain we have been having lately. The cows seem to eat it without harm but it stops growth and badly affects production. I am wondering if there is anything I can add to the nutrient tank, like peroxide, that will help with this problem, and if so what quantities are safe to use. My nutrient tank is 27,000 litres. I have noted the advice on presoaking the seed in a 1% peroxide solution but am reluctant to do this because of the difficulty in spreading wet seed in the trays. Do you have any suggestions on this?

Humidity has a lot to do with the problem. Try to air condition the area or use fans to keep humidity down. If mould is in the air from spores, maybe have your fan intakes come in from a higher point like through the roof, not near the ground where mould often lives.

The seed is often the source of the mould. I highly recommend washing some seed thoroughly and see if trays washed produce low or no mould. Try also some sterilizing of the seed as well, use hydrogen peroxide or Monochloramine, and compare that too. I think it is worth the effort, once you get used to it.

Sometimes the source is our hands. Don't touch the seed. EVER. Use gloves. Do not disturb the seed once it has been placed into the trays.

Sometimes the source is the water supply. Sterilize the water and test that theory on a few trays.

I seem to think that Fodder growing is not as low a labour activity as the sales people try to make it sound. It is not excessive but washing and cleaning is very important.

I also think that air conditioners make it much easier, as long as they are not blowing up. Make it a good model with too much power.

Good Luck - Scott

Dear Scott,
Can you provide me with information on how widely commercial hydroponic fodder production systems are available in the world and how they compare to each other on performance.
What are the average prices for say a one ton fodder production unit, and who are the suppliers of equipment and manufacturers of ready-made units?
I am looking for a unit that could provide fodder for 100 to 200 cattle or 1,000 sheep.
What criteria are the experts using for crop selection in an average dry country with hot temperatures?
Thanks for your great website!
(This is from the nation of Namibia)

Scott responds: Thanks for your question.

There are a great number of websites that describe businesses that produce pre-made fodder machines.
suggestions include www.fodderfactory.com.au and try www.yahoo.com  or similar search engine for a world search on Hydroponic Fodder.

We are working more to help farmers build their own than provide pre-built solutions.
Luckily I have many people investigating the very issues you ask
because of Australias worst drought in over 100 years.

Costs? No idea.
It can be as simple as plastic trays in a shadehouse,
with drippers or sprayers providing nutrition to the seeds lying in the trays.
It can be as complicated as airconditioned coolrooms etc.
Biggest enemy is mould, and airconditioning helps dry the air.
Heat next worst enemy, as many seed like only 20-25 degrees ceclius.
(under 30 degrees for Barley hence this is the summer favourite)

Ready made units?
I suggest looking in internet search engines for those businesses who can advise and install in your location.

Quantities produced?
We have tried 1/2 a litre jug of seed per tray and 1 litre jug of seed, and it seemed to produce around 2x the weight of fodder so its difficult to say, because you throw in drainage and temperature and humidity and nutrient strength (which noone can decide the same on) and you get 20 different farmers quoting different figures.
Give it a go to find out.

Crop selection?
By animal, then by climate. Try growing some different seed by laying the seeds on a tray, watering them with plain water for 7 days. Just wash the seed first, then keep moist with water, and ensure excess will drain. See what grows and what goes mouldy etc. Harvest is 5-7 days old.
Then advance to design a system with irrigation lines etc, and nutrients from day 3. The initial test will not be any more nutritional than the seed as you haven't added hydroponic nutrients but it will test for results.

On the subject of pre-made machine suppliers......
I have had them say to me, if you want to experiment, go ahead because you will fail !
On a small scale, I have not failed yet. So why do farmers have troubles?
Farmers are yet to solve the simple problem of mouldy fodder
as it does not affect some, and others can't get rid of it.
We are using sterlisation like mono-chloromine, and Hydrogen Peroxide.
I believe that silica could work but it is too slow to activate an immunity for the fast growing fodder.
Immunity is the holy grail of crop production, so I don't expect to solve it overnight.

Please keep in touch, as I would like to make up some sort of page just for Fodder
When we can do more, then we will have the answers on a web page

Until then keep emailling me and I will keep you up to date.

Scott

Scott, We have an old disused piggery shed, built with cement bricks, with some added natural light intake can we grow barley grass in this type of building, single layered?

Scott's response:

Umm, possibly. The issues would be 

1. Light - Shaded light or indirect light - direct light being fairly hard on the tender young grass
2. Heat - shed not to stay too hot (best is 25 degrees!) or too cold. Between 20 and 30 degrees shouldn't be a problem. Above 30 degrees means mould usually. Below 20degrees means slow, if any growth.
3. Ventilation - fresh air is necessary for growth, heat control, humidity control and for healthy fodder - vents and/or fans can be used 
4. Sanitation - mould can be a problem, 
5. Single layer might work well in one area, not in another, I wouldn't like to say anything about construction really. I usually ask a greenhouse specialist for your area what light levels/temperatures too expect in your structure/climate

Hope that answers some and doesn't create too many new questions

Scott 

I have a fodder shed 15m.x 6m. Would your large ozone generator cover this area.

Scott Responds

Ozone is a great way to treat mould. My latest information seems to indicate washing the seed well with a sterilizing agent like Hydrogen peroxide, or Monochloramine etc.  will eliminate the fungus/mould problem at the source.

As for Ozone and how effective it would be, the Variables would be how well the ozone could mix throughout the room, the leakage rates, it might be too much or too little. Sorry, can't nail me down on this one.

I will say we give a money back guarantee with all ozone generators. Mainly because I am such a nice guy (cough) and also because of the setup problem. I need to help you set the generator up to spread throughout the shed. We want to have the ozone effective in all areas, not strong in one area (eventually produces burning), and weak in the other areas (ineffective). Mixing all the air with some ozone may require some fans, and some airflow corrections using either fans or ducting.

Perhaps closing the shed for 30 minutes per day and allowing the Ozone to build up will work. We want the ozone levels to be fairly even, so some sort of distribution of air is still needed. Constant ozone and air flow with the shed open will work too, as long as you ozone the fresh air entering, and it spreads. In some sheds, it will never work without modifications, some sheds will work fine.

Without knowing if you can try these things, I would have to say "Maybe" because it might not work, the ozone unit is powerful enough, but the shed could be a problem depending on its design.

Scott

How much is a unit to produce up to 1000kg of fodder a day? Or how can we find a site / shop / person / advice on designing / buying a unit that will do this? We have water, but no feed. Will it work on bore water? We can find site, with prices from 2000, which we assume is out of date!! Is it possible to get too hot?? (45 degrees is common!) Any help gratefully received!

Scott responds

Very good Questions!
I have looked at fodder and feel we are within 3-6 months of producing something revolutionary, but not today.

I can tell you what we know.

Barley seems easiest to grow in the heat. Lay the seed in trays (kitty litter trays or similar sizes), spray or flood and drain them with a nutrient which has a low nutrient strength but modified trace element mix. In 24 hours they sprout a root, green shoots day 2 and 3, by 5 days you can early harvest, 7 days is about max before they slow down and behave more like slow growing grasses. 

High levels of light are not necessary, but cool temperatures are. 

I recommend shade. Since they like to be below 25 degrees and you are that hot,  you should forget the shade and put a solid roof over them, insulated if possible, and shade cloth sides to the building. 

Barley must be well rinsed as the smell from un-rinsed barley is pretty bad, the chemicals sprayed before harvest need to be removed, and root rots will happen if you don't. My tests on pre-soaking seeds to make them sprout have not shown any difference in speed or results.

The yields relate to how much seed you put in a tray. Deep layers of seeds give weight for a given area because there are so many shoots close together. There is more chance of rots and moulds because it is so dense, and I have encountered that at 28 degrees fairly often.

Less seeds reduces mould and yield. Also keeping sterilizing agents in the water helps also. Hydrogen peroxide, Ozone units sterilizing the water, and Monochloramine all work to combat any mould, fungi, bacteria etc.

I don't believe you need a lot of money to build a system, but to make a system 100% reliable, same yield all the time, no wastage from rots, you would need to spends tens of thousands.

Bore water may be too saline. Have it checked for suitability first with a water test.

Try the Fodder companies and check with their customers. They should give you some customers who will vouch for them. Some companies like www.fodderfactory.com.au provide a whole service, and provide complete products that will work well and give you the results you require. I want to do more research into producing something more cost effective. As I produce more info I will try and update this site, and this question of viable fodder production

Scott

Response to Fodder Growing 16/12/02

I have a fodder shed

You mentioned monochloramine, could this be used in the supply tank (5000gal) And its cost. This shed produces over a 1000kg a day, works on bore water, the only trouble I have is calcium build up and it is blocking nozels, plus I am getting fungus on 7th & 8th days

Scott again - Yes, but try sterlising the seed with the Monochlormine first. This may give you a more economical way to eliminate the mould/fungus/problem. The tank would require a fair amount to treat, so I would try washing first as the seed is often the source of the problem. (seed sitting in a warm silo, lots of nasties could grow there depending on treatment) 
If the nozzles are blocking up, there are products advertised in Practical Hydroponics called Calclear which is a device that is supposed to help keep calcium available. Might be of use to you. The Bore water is obviously the Calcium problem. Try a combination of a fine filter inline to catch any particles, and having a sprinkler rotation, where you remove a sprinkler and replace it with a clean one, putting the old one to soak in CLR or some cleaning solution like that. If you changed/cleaned 10% of the sprinklers each week, would you keep up with the problem? 
As for the fungus, it could be eliminated by the sterilisation of seed or nutrient. Give it a go, you can't go far wrong. The other answer may be to use less seed in the tray (if drainage is a problem) changing the drainage angle or hole sizes, the timing of the sprayers during the latter stage, or use a really basic approach and just pick at 6 days or before fungus becomes evident.
Good luck!
Scott

Further responses:

Thanks Scott for your reply, My shed has settled down, I think most of My problem came from the air conditioner, it was getting blocked with dust thus making the shed very moist, I am cleaning the pipes with C.L.R. and using a magnetic filter on the supply line from the bore, seems to be working ok.

Great! - Scott